|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 12, 2009 15:05:32 GMT -5
With the recent reemergence of Beef Protein Isolate (BPI) I have taken note of (and by reemergence I mean two or three products in the last few months that comprise the entire product category for the last decade) and have some questions popping up as a result. I’m sure some of the other members here have also seen BPI circulating around the industry, and had their interest at least tickled. The pair of offerings I mentioned above comes from Olympia Labs and Muscle Meds (primarilly) (each can be found respectively at the following links here: musclemedsrx.com/carnivor.html // www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=8178) Sure, there have been other releases with short lives success and shelf life from Protein Factory (Beef Plasma namesake) and also Benfatto Nutrition (yeah, I’ve never heard of this company either) Beef Protein (found here: www.bodybuilding.com/store/benfatto/wheybeef.html#) In short, since I have never taken any of these products because of an anecdotal report I heard from a close and reliable friend, someone had purchased Muscle Med’s iteration and ended up coming back to return the product citing SEVERE stomach cramping and painful inability to digest and pass the supplement, I am curious as I am sure many of you are. Olympia Labs claims/focuses more on the solubility and digestibility more than MM, but in my eyes that is simple marketing and changing a sentence here and there – not indicative of a new processing measure or technique that will alleviate the stomach ailments brought on by this line of protein. For [glow=red,2,300]Eric, Kyle, and Taylor[/glow]… although I am sure none of you have tried this new ‘strain’ of protein – I am calling upon the three of you because two of you are deeply entrenched in the industry and have daily contact with the happenings of the ebb and flow that we find our sport in; and one of you is a doctor who specializes in chemical pharmacology, so seems to be a perfect trifecta of gentleman to call upon. (Also if anyone from the forum has, or knows of anyone who has, tried these products, chime in please.) My main concern is if this BPI is whether or not this new protein faction is Viable… from an efficacy standpoint AS WELL as a health standpoint (I don’t want Olympia Labs who also make a product calls Herp-Eeze, making my protein which is basically over flavored cow blood and muscle tissue). What would cause a beef protein powder to reap such havoc on the unsuspecting user, when eating 10oz of pure ground beef doesn’t upset our stomachs at all? I look forward to have a discussion about this… I remember years ago when VPX tried to being a version of this seemingly Pipe-Dream product to market; but the Spray Dried Beef Plasma protein just didn’t take off, and I remember them having issues with the FDA since it was technically a food derived supplement and thus subject to their approval and inspection. Wouldn’t the same hold true with the small collection of companies dabbling in this BPI era?
|
|
|
Post by bigrick on Oct 12, 2009 17:06:31 GMT -5
Possibly the above product used that caused stomach discomfort had high levels or even levels of bad microbiological material. Maybe there was an issue in the pastuerization process. The process and care in which LBA's are made could have a profound effect on the finished product and have safe they are. When you are dealing with materials that have the ability to spoil easily with not procesed correctly, I suggest looking for certificates of product purity and cleanliness. I have only used LBA Pro by EFX so i cannot attest to the above LBA products. I can say that I have not had any stomach related issues with this LBA.
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 12, 2009 23:28:03 GMT -5
Possibly the above product used that caused stomach discomfort had high levels or even levels of bad microbiological material. Maybe there was an issue in the pastuerization process. The process and care in which LBA's are made could have a profound effect on the finished product and have safe they are. When you are dealing with materials that have the ability to spoil easily with not procesed correctly, I suggest looking for certificates of product purity and cleanliness. I have only used LBA Pro by EFX so i cannot attest to the above LBA products. I can say that I have not had any stomach related issues with this LBA. What is an LBA? I am not aware of some acronyms man, but I wanted to say thanks for responding. I am sure you have a point about the entire multi-tiered process involved in bringing a product like beef protein full circle from the cow to the shelves. I am not very confident in MuscleMeds or Olympia Labs as reputable companies... MuscleMeds only sells through their own website and I have tried their products (free bottle) and was UN-impressed to say the least. Olympia Labs is even worse... as I said before they make products to 'ease' herpes, and on their website they try to appeal to people who either want a bigger penis, or bigger muscles... unreal. With all the recent news about tainted products and the raid on IDS and Bodybuilding.com warehouses, does EFX ever get batch testing done to ensure label claims are being met and impurities are kept at bay?Until a company like Gaspari, VPX, Optimum, EFX, or EAS comes out with a beef protein, I will be the last person to embrace these products until A) Taylor or Eric vouch for their authenticity and efficacy, or B) I see some GMP certifications and COA's done by an independent party. As Steve Martin said in the epic iconic life changing silver screen classic 3 Amigos... "THAT'LL BE THE DAY!"
|
|
|
Post by tapo31 on Oct 13, 2009 7:43:54 GMT -5
Possibly the above product used that caused stomach discomfort had high levels or even levels of bad microbiological material. Maybe there was an issue in the pastuerization process. The process and care in which LBA's are made could have a profound effect on the finished product and have safe they are. When you are dealing with materials that have the ability to spoil easily with not procesed correctly, I suggest looking for certificates of product purity and cleanliness. I have only used LBA Pro by EFX so i cannot attest to the above LBA products. I can say that I have not had any stomach related issues with this LBA. What is an LBA? I am not aware of some acronyms man, but I wanted to say thanks for responding. I am sure you have a point about the entire multi-tiered process involved in bringing a product like beef protein full circle from the cow to the shelves. I am not very confident in MuscleMeds or Olympia Labs as reputable companies... MuscleMeds only sells through their own website and I have tried their products (free bottle) and was UN-impressed to say the least. Olympia Labs is even worse... as I said before they make products to 'ease' herpes, and on their website they try to appeal to people who either want a bigger penis, or bigger muscles... unreal. With all the recent news about tainted products and the raid on IDS and Bodybuilding.com warehouses, does EFX ever get batch testing done to ensure label claims are being met and impurities are kept at bay?Until a company like Gaspari, VPX, Optimum, EFX, or EAS comes out with a beef protein, I will be the last person to embrace these products until A) Taylor or Eric vouch for their authenticity and efficacy, or B) I see some GMP certifications and COA's done by an independent party. As Steve Martin said in the epic iconic life changing silver screen classic 3 Amigos... "THAT'LL BE THE DAY!"I will return to this later tonight when I have some time to read through the links provided. That being said: 1. LBA=liquid beef amino 2. EFX performs batch testing on each and every one of their batches.
|
|
|
Post by Hoopie on Oct 13, 2009 9:36:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Rick on Oct 13, 2009 15:48:10 GMT -5
I don't see the concern...liver tabs have been a staple for years. I can't imagine it being much harder to formulate a protein (HA HA...says the truck driver)
|
|
|
Post by tapo31 on Oct 13, 2009 23:26:41 GMT -5
Alright, I promised earlier that I would return and post my thoughts on this. I also want to say that I am not well versed in the process by which these companies are isolating the beef protein, I can only assume that if it is truly beef protein isolate, it must be purified though making a liquid of beef, removal of excess fat, and then some form of evaporative process.
What I am currently failing to see is how this is such a leap forward in supplement technologies. Don't get me wrong, I really like AAEFX LBAs as a convenient amino acid supplement, but the amino acids themselves derived from beef are identical to other animal sources with the primary exception being increased creatine present in red meat.
My guess is that the reason for the stomach discomfort was due to something in the processing itself, for example maybe the addition of an emulsifier to help break down fat or maybe an artificial flavor/color to help mask the taste of liquified beef.
In the end, I just don't buy the hype. This is not to say that it wouldn't provide quality protein but rather to say that I cannot see how amino acids derived from cow muscle provide a revolutionary breakthrough as compared to amino acids derived from cow milk, especially with how readily creatine is available for supplementation. At least the theory of dried plasma had the added benefit of various growth factors.
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 14, 2009 1:23:31 GMT -5
Alright, I promised earlier that I would return and post my thoughts on this. I also want to say that I am not well versed in the process by which these companies are isolating the beef protein, I can only assume that if it is truly beef protein isolate, it must be purified though making a liquid of beef, removal of excess fat, and then some form of evaporative process. What I am currently failing to see is how this is such a leap forward in supplement technologies. Don't get me wrong, I really like AAEFX LBAs as a convenient amino acid supplement, but the amino acids themselves derived from beef are identical to other animal sources with the primary exception being increased creatine present in red meat. My guess is that the reason for the stomach discomfort was due to something in the processing itself, for example maybe the addition of an emulsifier to help break down fat or maybe an artificial flavor/color to help mask the taste of liquified beef. In the end, I just don't buy the hype. This is not to say that it wouldn't provide quality protein but rather to say that I cannot see how amino acids derived from cow muscle provide a revolutionary breakthrough as compared to amino acids derived from cow milk, especially with how readily creatine is available for supplementation. At least the theory of dried plasma had the added benefit of various growth factors. Taylor, THANK YOU so much. It is a rare and very satisfying experience to ask a question, and have a chemical phd scientist share his thoughts with you. I would have had to pay a $15 co-pay and wait a couple of weeks to have a consultation with lesser qualified MDs! I highlighted the final sentence of your post, because I believe there is a lot of merit in your point(s). First of all, protein is protein, whether it is derived from a cow's milk or muscle tissue that is (I'm not drawing any relative equal anabolic efficacy between 'all' protein sources, we all know the protein in peanuts doesn't contain the same full spectrum of amino acids and corresponding physique enhancing properties as a whey). Second of all, unless we are referring to the spray dried plasma iteration of these beef proteins, I think I am beginning to side with your opinion in this whole scenario - why waste money on a mere theory amplified by advertising campaigns and risk stomach discomfort, when whey isolate is so readily available and proven? Unless a plasma variety of these BPI's ever becomes a materialized and viable product choice in the market, I am going to stick with Optimum's new Platinum Hydro-Whey. PS: I haven't ever acquainted myself with EFX and their line, aside from the creatine caps. Are their LBA's the same as Universal's low grade tabs, only better quality similar to Bev Nut's Liver Tabs? Thanks for responding!
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 14, 2009 1:25:35 GMT -5
HOOP! Hey man... phew, I've been great man - life is FANTASTIC. Thanks for chiming in, looks like EFA has quite a SOLID line of products AND the vision/fortitude/compulsive stringent quality control policies to win my heart over! I didn't get any samples of EFX's product offering at the O, but I'm already convinced there are top-notch in ever aspect
|
|
|
Post by rantorcha on Oct 14, 2009 7:43:44 GMT -5
The proof is in the pudding, too. I have used it for the last few months and absolutely attribute my new-found physique at least in part to the LBAs. Don't JUST go by the science...try it out. You won't be disappointed. Just my few pennies...
|
|
|
Post by godstrength on Oct 14, 2009 8:17:28 GMT -5
The proof is in the pudding, too. I have used it for the last few months and absolutely attribute my new-found physique at least in part to the LBAs. Don't JUST go by the science...try it out. You won't be disappointed. Just my few pennies... I have to second this. While I do not really want to say I've gotten bigger. I can for a fact say that I seem fuller looking, and tighter. I've also noticed that I recover much better, and seem to have better endurance during my workout..
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 14, 2009 10:47:46 GMT -5
Torch & Strength - thanks a lot for both of your input! Although the forums have changed over the years, the great informed opinions and advice haven't! I truly take you words to heart, because I know we are all a pretty tight knit group of athletes with very similar goals, and none of those goals permits a waste of finances on debunked supplements. I am out to eat, I will reply more later... but I am very intrigued. Thanks again!
|
|
|
Post by tapo31 on Oct 14, 2009 21:20:35 GMT -5
RA and GS, I am with you in the fact that AAEFX LBAs are a great supplement, I use them myself and think that they provide a great source of amino acids, especially with the delivery system. I do, however, feel that if you put dried whey or just pure synthesized amino acids in the same delivery platform, especially if you added in creatine. the results would be extraordinarily similar.
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 16, 2009 10:46:49 GMT -5
So it seems ( please correct me if I'm wrong) that we have come to a consensus together, that Beef Protein Isolate's and other meat-derived varieties are not worthy of our interest or investment UNTIL the process is perfected and we are presented with PLASMA spray-dried as a viable choice - right? Or should this be something avoided no matter what advancement are made in the foreseeable future, due to the fact we have Whey Protein Hydrolysate as an option which has been validated through clinical study and examination as a superior anabolic component of a structured training and eating program
|
|
|
Post by godstrength on Oct 16, 2009 11:48:02 GMT -5
RA and GS, I am with you in the fact that AAEFX LBAs are a great supplement, I use them myself and think that they provide a great source of amino acids, especially with the delivery system. I do, however, feel that if you put dried whey or just pure synthesized amino acids in the same delivery platform, especially if you added in creatine. the results would be extraordinarily similar Um, I'll take a case of that please,,,,,,,
|
|