|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 29, 2009 18:02:59 GMT -5
Very cool thread. Can't believe I just saw it. When I'm NOT prepping i"ll usually use a 2 pronged approach. I'll have a fast acting carb source IMMEDIATELY after training with Glutamine/BCAA/Creatine. 20-30 min later I'll have either a mix of low/hi gi carbs or low gi carbs with a shake or egg whites. Something like rice or potato. When I start prep I usually continue to do this, but as Eric lowers my post wo carbs and I continue to get ravenously hungry, I opt out of the high gi liquid/powder carbs and even the whey shake. I'll use BCAA/Glutamine combo immediately post workout then I'll get home and eat egg whites or chicken with sweet potato or oats. King KH! Good to see you over here brother... sorry I couldn't go to the IL with you to hang out and pimp Chained Out, I really appreciated the invite though. I'm sure someone in my neck of the woods has a big surprise bash planned for my birthday, LOL! Post up pics if you can after the booth... Anyway, I liked your above contribution to the thread, made me think back to my show(s) and how I would opt for ANYTHING that involved chewing the final few weeks, just to attempt to offer from satisfaction to my stomach/brain. You mentioned sweet potatoes and oats (I've had both already today) were you saying you might implement these foods as your PWO source, or as your secondary PWO meal within that demonstrated pivotal window of opportunity for heightened macro-nutrient absorption and partitioning favoring muscle reparation and growth? PS: MAKE SURE (Eric + others) to check out the 1st page; my replies to other posts have forced this new page to populate, thanks
|
|
|
Post by The One on Oct 29, 2009 19:48:31 GMT -5
Corn bread is good, as are corn grits ala Ronnie Coleman. Don't get overly caught up in the exact GI, just make sure its reasonably high and that the AMOUNT is reasonable in overall diet plan. LOL... I just got Ronnie's " Unbelievable" DVD in the mail today from Netflix - ironic. I can remember that corn grits scene from one of his newer dvd's vividly. As far as corn bread - happy to hear that I am ( Yoda). I have only paid homage to the GI, in respect to it's spelled out numerically correlated glucose conversion rate. I don't abide by and act upon it as the holy grail, but I also believe the merit it offers cannot be overstated either. Insulin = good (at very specific times for very specific intended results). Now... about that cornbread... I just happen to have about 16 boxes of it, all lined up at 90 degree angles in perfect rows in the cupboard, lol How did those get there? Would you advocate deriving post workout carbs from a dual-source or triad of carbs; or would the resulting effect not be advantageous over simply eating one source to elicit blood sugar modulation? For example, would you see any benefit realized from eating a 1/1/1 ratio (to comprise the usual 90-120g carbs PWO) of cornbread/rice-chex (cereal)/honey? The Rice-Chex and Honey is something I have been doing for eons (well, maybe not that long) because of the processed rice (lacking any sugar) and obvious demonstrated health benefits and sugar concentration of honey. I do not think the post workout carb "thing" should be overthought or overcomplicated. It is actually pretty simple...if you are in a growing phase, go for a high GI carb (80 and over, closer to 100 the better) that will successfully spike insulin. Utilize this high GI carb with a whey isolate or even hydrolyzed whey, which will not only compliment the insulin spike, but also make amino acids ready available for transport into cells. I actually feel pure Vitargo is the BEST of the PW carbs, but it is expensive and sometimes I WANT TO EAT! So, in this case, perhaps a 1/2 liquid carb-1/2 solid carb could be a good mix.
|
|
|
Post by hossjob on Oct 29, 2009 21:12:35 GMT -5
I have to agree 100000% with coaches last sentence up there!
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 29, 2009 21:40:59 GMT -5
LOL... I just got Ronnie's " Unbelievable" DVD in the mail today from Netflix - ironic. I can remember that corn grits scene from one of his newer dvd's vividly. As far as corn bread - happy to hear that I am ( Yoda). I have only paid homage to the GI, in respect to it's spelled out numerically correlated glucose conversion rate. I don't abide by and act upon it as the holy grail, but I also believe the merit it offers cannot be overstated either. Insulin = good (at very specific times for very specific intended results). Now... about that cornbread... I just happen to have about 16 boxes of it, all lined up at 90 degree angles in perfect rows in the cupboard, lol How did those get there? Would you advocate deriving post workout carbs from a dual-source or triad of carbs; or would the resulting effect not be advantageous over simply eating one source to elicit blood sugar modulation? For example, would you see any benefit realized from eating a 1/1/1 ratio (to comprise the usual 90-120g carbs PWO) of cornbread/rice-chex (cereal)/honey? The Rice-Chex and Honey is something I have been doing for eons (well, maybe not that long) because of the processed rice (lacking any sugar) and obvious demonstrated health benefits and sugar concentration of honey. I do not think the post workout carb "thing" should be overthought or overcomplicated. It is actually pretty simple...if you are in a growing phase, go for a high GI carb (80 and over, closer to 100 the better) that will successfully spike insulin. Utilize this high GI carb with a whey isolate or even hydrolyzed whey, which will not only compliment the insulin spike, but also make amino acids ready available for transport into cells. I actually feel pure Vitargo is the BEST of the PW carbs, but it is expensive and sometimes I WANT TO EAT! So, in this case, perhaps a 1/2 liquid carb-1/2 solid carb could be a good mix. Gracias mi amigo!I am pretty torn about Vitargo, because the company that now pimps it has basically a monopoly on the license and distribution on the sourcing and raw compound. A friend of mine who owns his own supplement company looked into it, and they force you to sign a contractual stipulation which sort of pushes you into serfdom by paying them commission on all future sales.
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 30, 2009 11:54:56 GMT -5
I think this would be the best place to post this since we have a gathering of the minds now I made a post a while back after reading an issue of MD, in order to expound on some of the topics addressed in various articles, and although some of my three-questions have been answered on the MD forums, I still have a few remaining: forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=62869-------------------------------------------------------- Hey guys, last month's MD was one of the best I can remember in recent memory; all I'll say is the new staff, new direction, and seemingly re-energized core principles at the helm of MD is exciting. I am going to list some questions that came to the surface in regards to the several columns in recent publications of MD, and since they vary from nutrition to training; I thought Bodybuilding Science would be the best home for them to be answered (hopefully) because I am very curious, and believe these questions can benefit many members and subscribers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. One of the most interesting, educational, yet question raising articles I read last month dealt with the timing of Cardio + Weight Training; and their negative correlation on the body's ability to adapt properly to each individual stimulus. I believe the overarching point was that if performed in unison (as in circuit training/boot camp style) or performed back-to-back (cardio after lifting as many of us do); we would not be able to achieve optimal intended end-result of either activity, because the CN-System would be overloaded or inept at "changing gears" so quickly? The article was enlightening, but never said 1. How long we should wait between these varying types of exercise to allow proper recovery and reset our central nervous system, and 2. Since most of us are relegated to choosing between doing cardio after our lifting or no cardio at all, how much of a detrimental impact does this back-to-back exercising protocol manifest upon our ultimate goals? 2. Another very revealing piece of writing that was a good refresher reminded bodybuilders of the negative effects of anti-inflammatory aids. Aside from the obvious NSAI's, one OTC supplement that often gets overlooked and subsequently taken at the wrong time for the wrong reason, is Fish Oil. Now, although I've known this for years, I was never able to make the direct parallel that taking an anti-inflammatory immediately before/after a workout is actually COUNTER productive, in that it halts many of the needed steps and chemical reactions/satellite cell activation and proliferation/fibril damage and adaptive mechanisms in order to eventually achieve hypertrophy. My question is, since Fish Oil has been demonstrated to elicit such a long laundry list of positive health benefits in the body, I/we don't want to eliminate it as a tool, so what should the appropriate timing be regarding Omega consumption and EFAs/CLA? I used to take it pre & post-workout in small amounts due to its insulin sensitivity effects and join support, as well as postulated fat burning metabolic enhancing effects; but now I am thinking taking Fish Oil only upon waking and before bed would be correct; but what if we train from 9-10pm, and go to bed directly after eating because of career timing? 3. To finish up my triad of questions with respect to last month's rendition of MD, I'd like to ask about the Carbohydrate timing and daily consumption. One of the personal struggles I've had over the years through competition, and training others, has been that ever-evolving and inconsistent need for varying glycemic levels at certain times and in what ratios to protein and fats. More specifically, the article stated something that brought a frown to my face, that it's not as simple as "eating carbs when traditionally taught to suffice, such as upon waking and post-training to stop the catabolism and engage the anabolic hormone cascade is not a sufficient or well developed nutritional strategy" (I'm paraphrasing). So, if we cannot simply follow the misleading rule of thumb that carbs are needed most to break the fast, and to replenish glycogen levels, was the author saying we need to incorporate carbs into every meal in varying amounts so that we do not drastically lower blood sugar, or was he saying that based on his cited research we need to truly follow an all inclusive macro-nutrient profile, and not try to simplify things by ingesting carbs only when we have been told it is crucial? I know Dave is a huge advocate of the low carb approach and I know many athletes that have worked with him and enjoyed the benefits his diets have afforded them, but this peaked my curiosity. For further reading: forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=62869
|
|
|
Post by The One on Oct 30, 2009 11:58:30 GMT -5
Wow...Aaron...I think you have too much time on your hands these days
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Oct 30, 2009 12:01:30 GMT -5
Wow...Aaron...I think you have too much time on your hands these days LOL... or 9 hour shifts of pure computer attached 4-screen panoramic glory. I am a computer operations manager for GE, and I have multiple connected LCD displays for various Global Processes I monitor in real time - but after being promoted for a while, I have become efficient enough to frequent forums. Imagine what 9 hours of being paid to sit in front of multiple high-def monitors could do for your intellectual stimulation (or lack thereof WITHOUT forums). PS: You're the one with a post count that is exponentially higher than mine birthday boy!
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Dec 14, 2009 17:22:10 GMT -5
Yo!
I am at Wal Mart, there are Grits and Cream of Wheat...
1) What's the difference (both in GI, taste, and texture) 2) What could/should they be used for respectively? Breakfast or post workout only?
Ronnie does it, with cheese!
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Dec 14, 2009 17:30:29 GMT -5
Just snapped a picture of our cart... I went with the Wal Mart brand of Cream of Wheat, it looked less........ gritty! It is labeled as "Quick Farina," so I would surmise the processing the Farina undergoes to cook faster would render it higher GI, similar to old fashioned oat vs. instant oatmeal? Pic Attached Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Dec 15, 2009 15:36:47 GMT -5
LOL... ignore the Sugar Frosted Flakes and Snack Pack in the cart if you click on the thumbnail and enlarge the picture Those items are for the Mrs, who happens to have the unparalleled preponderance to consume copious calories and stave off lipogenesis!!
|
|
|
Post by masterschamp on Dec 18, 2009 10:34:44 GMT -5
I have a regular meal 2 hours before training, usually rice and chicken.......drink designer chocolate whey mixed with water during my workout....and then have grits, and white bread with jelly post workout. I eat another regular meal 90 minutes after that. Not really rocket science!!
Keith
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Dec 18, 2009 10:52:44 GMT -5
I have a regular meal 2 hours before training, usually rice and chicken.......drink designer chocolate whey mixed with water during my workout....and then have grits, and white bread with jelly post workout. I eat another regular meal 90 minutes after that. Not really rocket science!! Keith Yeah, Rocket science would involve Rockets, lol Bodybuilding itself isn't Rocket science, but that doesn't impede any of us concerned with persistent progress to push forward by means of research and applied science. I was only asking about the difference between the two. Jelly has fructose in it, which is diverted to the liver principally and used to replenish liver stores until the threshold is breached and it is converted into fat opposed to being used secondarily as muscle glycogen regeneration I thought? There are some conflicting university studies, but 10% has been demonstrated of every gram of carbohydrate to have a direct conversion correlation to adipose tissue. I am not certain, but I don't believe muscle tissue has the correct conversion enzymes to properly and efficiently assimilate and absorb fructose. (Medical Citation: informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517409114190)
|
|
|
Post by masterschamp on Dec 18, 2009 12:29:35 GMT -5
Aaron..... Don't misconstrue what I meant..... My statement about rocket science was only in relation to MY use of those foods..........meaning that I, PERSONALLY, don't treat it as such...I go by what works for me, as I always have in relation to all things bodybuilding, with a track record to back it up. I am not disputing what the research literature says...I simply know my body and what works for me. Anyone who wants to research anything should.....it is their choice, and I laud you for your diligence......Really has no significance to me in the least.....I am too busy being a husband and father of four, to invest alot of time researching what I have lived for over 3 decades. Those three plus decades have provided me with a wealth of experiential learning that no research paper could impart. As an educator with 27 years of professional service, believe me, I know the value of being well read......as a competitive bodybuilder with over 25 years of experience, I also know the value of real world application, and the truth of finding what works for each of us, individually.
Keith
|
|
|
Post by Ivan Drago - aka Arny/Dolph/AM on Dec 18, 2009 12:42:46 GMT -5
Aaron..... Don't misconstrue what I meant..... My statement about rocket science was only in relation to MY use of those foods..........meaning that I, PERSONALLY, don't treat it as such...I go by what works for me, as I always have in relation to all things bodybuilding, with a track record to back it up. I am not disputing what the research literature says...I simply know my body and what works for me. Anyone who wants to research anything should.....it is their choice, and I laud you for your diligence......Really has no significance to me in the least.....I am too busy being a husband and father of four, to invest alot of time researching what I have lived for over 3 decades. Those three plus decades have provided me with a wealth of experiential learning that no research paper could impart. As an educator with 27 years of professional service, believe me, I know the value of being well read......as a competitive bodybuilder with over 25 years of experience, I also know the value of real world application, and the truth of finding what works for each of us, individually. Keith Understood - thank you very much for explaining. I can't find one thing I disagree with in what you said Keith. I admit I took your earlier remarks as gentle elbow in the ribs, but I believe that was only because sometimes things are impossible to clearly convey on a forum. Now I completely see where you're coming from, and also to compliment what you shared with me, I also want to make it clear I was not trying to cite any research as a definitive end-all answer to the carbohydrate scenario. I for one know all too well the ways each body reacts differently... I have done multiple shows over the years, and never once been able to stand on stage anywhere near my true potential. Thanks again for explaining and have an awesome day. I am going to have some Cream of Wheat after my next workout and see how it goes. I may eventually experiment with other seldom used foods such as cornbread as time passes; in my opinion after any workout as intense as mine/yours/ours, we would be hard-pressed to store ANY consumed calorie as fat!
|
|
|
Post by masterschamp on Dec 18, 2009 14:16:21 GMT -5
"in my opinion after any workout as intense as mine/yours/ours, we would be hard-pressed to store ANY consumed calorie as fat!"
Now that is hitting the nail on the head!!....exactly echoes my train of thought!
Aaron.. You should know me well enough after the years to know that not only do I respect you as a fellow "iron warrior", I respect what you have accomplished as a young man outside of the sport as well.....dude..if I didn't like you I would never respond to any of your posts!!! ;D ;D
Keith
|
|